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In an interview with CNN’s Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour, former US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the death of Russian opposition figure Alexey Navalny sends a strong message to people in the United States who think they can “somehow make a deal with Putin.”
Speaking on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference on Friday, Clinton described Navalny’s death as “tragic.”
“It is a tragedy for Russia, that someone who was willing to stand up and speak out and really represent a different future for Russia should be killed,” Clinton remarked.
Clinton said she had become well acquainted with Navalny’s daughter and wife, describing the politician as someone who was “engaged at every level” and “every cell of his body in trying to stand up for what Russia could be.”
Clinton said Navalny’s death sends a message to “people in Europe and in the United States” who “think that you can somehow make a deal with Putin.”
“A dictator as he [Putin] is, intends, only to dominate and if that means killing your opposition, as he’s done with so many people over so many years, or invading a peaceful neighbor and trying to bend it to his will, that’s what he will do,” she added.
Clinton listed former US President Donald Trump as an example of someone who is “enamored” with Putin, saying his recent comments on the US role in NATO were “absurd” and essentially encouraging “Putin to do what he wants to do.”
When asked about the $95.3 billion foreign aid bill passed in the Senate earlier this week, Clinton says it would “pass overwhelmingly” if it were ever put on the floor of the House.
“It would pass overwhelmingly because the people who are preventing it - starting with the speaker, Mike Johnson - are not doing America's business. They're doing Donald Trump's business. And why is Donald Trump so enamored of Putin? He's a wannabe dictator.”
“Nobody who is siding with Trump on this issue would want to live under that kind of regime,” she added.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: There was an audible gasp from so many people. I mean, some people cried. Some people yelled. Some people were just completely shocked. It's really cast a pall over this conference, which already has challenges about America's continued leadership of NATO, about whether Ukraine will survive another year. So, this has been incredibly difficult for everybody here.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is joining me.
And you very quickly tweeted, Madam Secretary -- thank you for being with us on this day -- your condolences not only to his family and friends and his staff, but to the people of Russia.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Yes.
AMANPOUR: You were sending a message.
CLINTON: I was, Christiane.
I have gotten to know Navalny's wife and daughter. I have gotten to work with the number of the people who have been around him exposing corruption, putting together an opposition agenda to Putin. And it was so tragic to hear that he's been killed.
And there's no doubt in my mind -- and I know President Biden just made a statement based on the intelligence available to our government -- that his death is a result of Putin's brutality. And it is a tragedy for Russia that someone who was willing to stand up and speak out and really represent a different future for Russia should be killed.
And you probably have heard that he was actually on video yesterday from the prison doing some kind of a legal appearance. He looked healthy. He was his usual kind of confident, joke-cracking self. In fact, his wife and others who saw that video yesterday were quite reassured that he was OK.
And then we get this terrible news today.
AMANPOUR: And I want to read what you chose of him to put out in your tweet.
This is Alexei Navalny: "Listen, I have got something very obvious to tell you. You're not allowed to give up. If they decide to kill me, it means that we are incredibly strong."
That was him...
CLINTON: Right.
AMANPOUR: ... kind of a death foretold...
CLINTON: Right.
AMANPOUR: ... and trying to tell his people, do not give up hope one way or the other.
And you have had plenty of experience when you were secretary of state with President Putin, with elections there, with the whole attempt at some kind of democracy. What do you think this means today? I mean, what room is there in Russia anymore for that?
CLINTON: Well, I think it's important that those of us who believe in the human spirit and freedom and democracy and who believe the Russian people deserve a lot better than they're getting under Putin and his cronies take to heart what Navalny said in that quote that I used in responding to his death, because change doesn't happen easily, and it doesn't happen because we want it.
[13:20:15]
It happens because, year after year, strong people are willing to say, this is wrong, we deserve better. And, honestly, I think what he is alluding to in that comment is, it shows weakness. He went back to Russia.
The film about him going back and Putin's first attempt to murder him by poison and how he miraculously recovered, thanks to German medical treatment -- and we're here in Munich. This film, which you haven't -- if you haven't seen it, you should see it -- it won the Academy Award -- shows a man who is truly engaged at every level, every cell of his body, in trying to stand up for what Russia could be.
He knew when he went back he was going to be arrested. He was literally arrested at the airport. And I think it may not have been a death foretold, but an awareness of the risk he was taking. And it -- this is a message also for people in Europe and in the United States, particularly, who think that you can somehow make a deal with Putin, that you can let down your defenses, when someone who's as brutal a dictator as he is intends only to dominate.
And if that means killing your opposition, as he's done with so many people over so many years, or invading a peaceful neighbor and trying to bend it to his will, that's what he will do.
AMANPOUR: So, you lead me obviously into, before this death, the real questions here, as I alluded at the beginning in introducing you, was, can Ukraine survive another year? Will the United States step up? And will the United States continue to be a leader of NATO, given former President Trump's recent comments?
President Biden said this week, supporting this bill, the one for foreign aid and military aid, is standing up to Putin; opposing it is playing into Putin's hands.
CLINTON: Yes.
AMANPOUR: What -- I mean, you're a former senator.
(LAUGHTER)
AMANPOUR: The Senate came kicking and screaming, but they passed it. But the House hasn't passed it.
CLINTON: Right.
AMANPOUR: Where do you think, in the political realm, this is going to go?
CLINTON: Well, one thing I know for sure, if this bill from the Senate were ever put on the floor of the House, it would pass.
It would pass overwhelmingly, because the people who are preventing it, starting with the speaker, Mike Johnson, are not doing America's business. They're doing Donald Trump's business. And why is Donald Trump so enamored of Putin? Well, part of it is, he's a wannabe dictator. He has told us that repeatedly.
He even said the other day, let's basically get out of NATO and encourage Putin to do what he wants to do.
How absurd a statement that is cannot even be measured, because you are essentially giving a green light to a murderous, brutal dictator. Nobody who is siding with Trump on this issue would want to live under that kind of regime.
AMANPOUR: I want to ask you, though. You said, if it came to the floor of the House, it would pass overwhelmingly.
CLINTON: Yes, it would.
AMANPOUR: We know that the majority of Americans believe and support NATO.
CLINTON: Yes.
AMANPOUR: And they want to support it.
But why do you think that? Then why isn't it coming to the floor of the House?
CLINTON: Well, this is one of the great political mysteries of our time, because there are Republicans who feel that they took an oath to Donald Trump, not to the United States of America.
And I don't say that lightly, but I cannot understand it. There are people I served with in the Senate for eight years who have turned on America in order to curry favor with Trump. I don't recognize these people. These are people who I worked with, that I traveled with. And to hear what's coming out of their mouths now is just shocking to me.
So there's something going on in this minority of the Republican members of Congress, particularly in the House, that makes them seem as though they're a member of the Trump cult, not that they took an oath to serve our country and work on behalf of their constituents.
I'm hoping that better heads will prevail and we will get that vote.
AMANPOUR: For those who say this is just Trump in campaign mode...
CLINTON: No, that's not true, Christiane.
You need to listen to him and take him seriously. He is telling us what he wants to do. He wants to be a dictator on day one. He wants to round up people because of the way they look. They may or may not be undocumented. It doesn't matter to him. He wants to call out the Army to do that.
[13:25:02]
He wants to use the Insurrection Act to militarize American law enforcement. He has a whole team of right-wing thinkers, so to speak, who are coming up with an agenda called Project 2025. He wants to rid the government of any kind of independent expertise.
So he wants people who will say -- when he said memorably during COVID, maybe you should inject yourself with bleach, instead of looking shocked, they will say, yes, sir, Mr. President.
That's what he wants. He wants to bend the government of the United States to his will, just like Vladimir Putin did to Russia.
AMANPOUR: So what do you think, then, this Munich Security Conference is going to be able to do? Do you think people like yourself, people like Vice President Harris, who told the...
CLINTON: Yes.
AMANPOUR: ... the plenary today that the United States stands firm, it will still carry out its leadership role, and that they hope they can still continue supporting Ukraine, do you feel that people will be comforted by that?
Will they be able to believe it? How do you think Europe is going to react to this kind of anxiety about America?
CLINTON: Well, I know, because I have been talking to a lot of European leaders, people that I served with when I was secretary of state, knew in years even before that.
They're worried. They're worried about not just America's leadership. That's like a shorthand of saying America's values, America's spine, America's conscience, America's values. Are we going to walk away from an aggressive war on the continent of Europe? We have been down that road before. We have seen this movie. It doesn't turn out well for the United States, Europe and the world.
So I think that there is going to have to be some very open, honest conversations about what this will do to the United States. And I thought the vice president gave a very strong, good speech today outlining some of those consequences.
And I want to just throw in this factoid. If you look at all of the money that Europe has given to Ukraine to support its war efforts, primarily military, some humanitarian, they have given more money than the United States. They have given more money on a per capita basis. They have given more money on an absolute comparison.
Europe understands what's at stake. Putin would not stop if he got his way in Ukraine.
AMANPOUR: Apparently -- Senator Angus King, he told me on the program a week or so ago that the United States actually, in terms of GDP and how much it puts into its defense budget, is 15.
Actually, the European countries, especially those that surround Russia and are very vulnerable, they do relatively more.
CLINTON: That's right.
AMANPOUR: So, that, he said to me, was a bit of a -- whatever they call it, a straw man.
CLINTON: Yes. And that's what Trump keeps saying. They have to pay their way, they pay their way.
On a comparative basis, Senator King is absolutely right.
AMANPOUR: You know, as I said, it's very, very touch-and-go for Ukraine right now militarily. They're running out of everything.
CLINTON: Yes, they are.
AMANPOUR: The stories from the front lines are really terrifying, not only the personnel exhausted, but they are reporting a lack of shells and all of that stuff.
I spoke to the former NATO general and commander, General Philip Breedlove, and he said, Ukraine can win, but it depends on us, on Western will...
CLINTON: That's right.
AMANPOUR: ... and on American will and on American political leaders.
CLINTON: Yes. That's right.
Well, he's absolutely right. I mean, he knows the military situation. I know the political situation. If we actually voted to reflect the majority in Congress, the majority in the United States, we would be sending more help to Ukraine right now.
I think, in order to fill the gap between now and when we can try to force a vote on the floor of the House, which I think is what's going to have to happen, other countries need to look at their weapons stocks. If they were thinking of sending or selling something to someone else, halt that sale, send it to Ukraine.
We have got to keep Ukraine going. And they are running out of ammunition. I was just speaking with some Ukrainian representatives, and their front-line soldiers, who have been so brave, are literally getting a couple of shells. That's all they're getting.
And they need more help, and they need more air defense and more anti-missile defense as well.
AMANPOUR: Can I switch to another terrible war that's exacting terrible casualties?
CLINTON: Yes. Yes.
AMANPOUR: And the president is very -- trying to figure out a way to stop the worst casualties here.
You said last week: "Netanyahu should go." This is, of course, Israel, Palestine, Gaza. "He is not a trustworthy leader. It was on his watch that the October 7 attack happened. He needs to go. And if he's an obstacle to a cease-fire, if he's an obstacle to exploring what's to be done the day after, he needs to go."
CLINTON: Yes, he does.
AMANPOUR: What do you think is going to happen?
CLINTON: It's not clear yet, but I can say what should happen. And I know this is what the United States government, the Biden administration is working on.
They are working very hard for a cease-fire that includes not only a cessation of hostilities in Gaza, but also the release of all the hostages. They are working very hard to persuade Netanyahu not to go forward with what we are hearing him say, which is some kind of massive attack on Rafah.
There is no way you can move a million people out of harm's way. And that has to be stopped. There needs to be a plan to continue to try to extract those Hamas leaders who are still embedded in the tunnels in Southern Gaza, but not at the cost of a humanitarian disaster, the likes of which we have not yet seen.
And there needs to be a conversation starting right now about the so-called day after. Who is going to be at the table? Who is going to actually come with ideas? How are we going to get a reformed Palestinian Authority? How are we going to get leadership in Israel who understandably reflects the trauma that has been visited upon Israelis, but understands also that, in order to have a secure Israel, there has to be a movement toward a two-state solution?
That's a lot of work that all has to go on at the same time. It's my understanding from talks that I have been having that's exactly what the Biden administration is doing and trying to pull off.
AMANPOUR: Secretary Clinton, thank you very much indeed. Credit:CNN
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